New C&L 3V Manifold for S197 Mustangs

Sounds like the first few samples are getting shipped finally. Mine came today with UPS.

I recently added delete plates, and a new tune the other day. No dyno yet. The car will be run hard at a track rental tomorrow, then I drop the car off Monday with my tuner (Woodbine Motorsports in MD). He'll dyno it to see what the plates did (good or bad), then put in the manifold and redyno so we can compare with the delete plates and prior to the delete plates. I intend to race next Friday or Saturday to test the manifold, weather permitting.

Nice looking Piece! Didn't know that C & L was making a manifold for you guys. What are the first run of them costing?

looks awesome great looking manifold

$700 and change. The latest issue of MM&FF says 25+ horsepower, and I'd like to see what that means at the track. I want to get into the 11s without poweradd and stock heads, shortblock...

Well, it's not doin you any good sitting on that stack of tires. What are you waiting for? Get busy!!

Boss281 wrote:$700 and change. The latest issue of MM&FF says 25+ horsepower, and I'd like to see what that means at the track. I want to get into the 11s without poweradd and stock heads, shortblock...

Nice looking piece, John! Lee Bender (C&L) is a great guy! I had a chance to meet him back in the late '90s at VA Motorsports Park at FFW I wonder what Ron Leonard would run using this intake...11.5s? Last I saw he was at 11.79!
Seeing all the go parts lately makes it very difficult at saving some money! Marc's new heads and cams...your intake... It was awesome being at Excessive the other night and seeing Marc's car put down 391/358 with the new combo

Yeah, John, and I just spent $4000 on a 98 Expedition with 5.4l so I could use that as a tow vehicle instead of my '97 GMC Sierra. Now I have NO money except what I've put away for a DD, and have to save all summer for my heads again. Ah well, all in good fun.

PRO50SC wrote:Well, it's not doin you any good sitting on that stack of tires. What are you waiting for? Get busy!!

If I hear that one more time...

I went to Cecil today to see what my new tune delete plates would give me before pulling the plates out and installing the manifold. I'm having it dynoed before and after the manifold is installed too, before racing next Friday night.

Are the delete plates for the Cam timing? Or something else. And if they are for cam timing are they simply so you can put adjustable sprockets on it?

They eliminate the turbulence in the intake runners by removing the butterflies that are there for emissions. Most effective at WOT, not enough gain for me to justify $200 + time/labor

Man that looks sweet...

Absolutely no gains. The S197 community is stunned. I've got two phone calls from folks today that got the same abysmal results, but are afraid to post the results because of sponsorship issues and fear of the internet know it all police. See threads here
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15638
and here
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=480661

Woodbine Motorsports and I are continuing to research the issue, but imagine a $750 paperweight and you'll get how I'm feeling about now...

Sorry to hear John. I've been watching the thread on S197 myself and, like others, am baffled that you didn't gain anything from it. I'm anxious to see if others come through with their results and if something is figured out.

Keep us posted on any new finds...............this is good info for anyone. I actually thought about going the same route you and Marc have if and when I get into modding the engine.

Laura, there is NO doubt that the delete plates (I'll sell 'em cheap!), longtubes, cams, cold air intake and custom tune go a LONG way to getting HP up around 330-335 or so, and that's good for low 12s. For your car actually, the delete plates and LTs would be a natural step up, although I'd might do some rear suspension work first before the LTs. But that's just me.

I've got a second set of heads bought cheap that I'm sending to Fox Lake for porting and valve regrinding--maybe $1500 or so. Add the C&L racer inlet tube and MAF (I have their 'street' kit) and the gt500 throttle body that's collecting dust in my garage, and I might gain 15-20 from the heads and another 10 from the wider tube/TB. Every little bit counts!

Anyhow, more morning was a bit of a disappointment, and some other drama got me bummed, but tomorrow's another day.

John

$750 paper weight???? That's effed up, John I think I would call Lee directly and ask him what's up!

Good thing, I haven't gotten caught up in all these "go fast" parts...yet... I have just gone to the "look fast" parts... I hear ya on suspension parts before more power route! Over the winter, I didn't know if I wanted to get cams, stall and DS or LCAs and DRs. Decided to go Plan B and utilize what power I already had. I wonder what gains Marc would see with this intake, being that his HP jumped from low 330s to 391 with just the head/cam swap and some fuel air tweaks on the dyno

John that really bites, I hope this news gets out and they loss their a$$ on these.

that sucks to have a big $750 paperweight

Sorry to hear that John I wonder if they was talking about a increase of 27 hp on a stock GT and just didnt say it.

That really blows man.

It it at all possible that with all your MODs, that you have reached max efficiency of the intake system on a NA car?

That's what everyone is suspecting in the tuner community. Either get a manifold for $750, or longtubes, cold air kit and delete plates. Depending on the LT buy, the manifold could be cheaper.

What really blows is that two guys I know that just got the manifold tested on their cars had ported heads. One didn't gain squat, the other actually LOST power. Now that REALLY blows.

It ain't put out to pasture yet but I suspect that it won't be long and C&L is going to find all that research $$$ going down the drain.

John, I haven't read the article, in fact, I've been trying to find it. I am curious to see if they showed the results on any vehicle, whether NA or FI, when the product first came about. Or has all this HP gain been word of mouth from C&L and the manufacturers? I know that this product was advertised for NA vehicles............but when talk of a 27HP gain is resulted, is it on a stock GT or with other mods? And if so, what modifications?

Pardon my nieveness and misinformation.......

I have the magazine, and I'll put it in my car for you the next time I see you.

The manufacturer test ONE F#%@ing car, bone stock, and gained 17hp. I believe it. 7-8hp comes from delete plates, and since these are built into the bottom of the manifold, that makes sense. So let's say the manifold really gives you 10hp over the deletes. Sure, that makes sense, all with a tune, of course.

But delete plates, longtubes and a cold air kit are probably pushing the same amount of air as the manifold, so if you ADD the manifold on top of those mods, then no gains. Or worse is even possible, as one guy with ported heads reported. As jeostang says, NA we're modded out at max efficiency already.

Good to be home thinking about cars again...

I see, so I can see why all the hype and anticipation for our NA cars, but DAMN, only testing it on one fricking car!!! That to me is pushing the product on to the consumer before even getting good test results to back up claims. Especially without track/ET times. And what about already modified NA car? WTF?

Did no one ask these questions before the product went on the market? I just don't get it..............with us NA folks, we are always trying to get more HP, mostly little by little. And I am stunned that they didn't do more appropriate research with more vehicles(from stock, to cammed, etc.) The more i read, the more I see this being a waste of distribution and hard labor............maybe over time things wil get figured out. I hate to say this........but at this point in time, I am glad I didn't spend the $700!

hey john i just bought this months issue of muscle mustangs and fast fords soley for the article they have front page which says "c&l intake tested to make 27hp gains".

2 things -1 they said it only made 15-17hp @ their "in-house" testing on a stock 07 gt (which we all know how they get those numbers- take a warm/hot car straight from the road trip down to the dyno and dyno it then have it sit a couple hours and cool off while they install their part and then test it again cold)

and 2 the magazine tested it on a modified n/a car with basically all the mods you have exactly and it made 27hp more but torq fell by 2 ( and both stock and modified it didnt produce gains until about 5000rpm)

Ithink its exactly what you say the delete plates are all the hp gain and like i said above their "testing procedure"

Google Evolution and dyno results. Just do it and read.

Yes, there are all sorts of tuning "tricks", including detuning the before. As I said, do a google search. My tuner doesn't do that crap.

Here's what I know and think: C&L had a few false starts with this manifold starting 3 years back! Several prototypes showed no gain at all. Ford did a good job on this.

C&L was under a lot of pressure to get this thing out. I find it VERY CURIOUS that it was tested during the winter and NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, reported track times. There are plenty of high profile tuners in the south that could have done this and run it at the track. But they choose Evolution Performance in PA??? WTF??? Of course they can't track test it.

Personally, I think the C&L manifold is likely to provide better gains to the FI community. Yet, NO ONE is reporting anything. You mean to tell me that only NA folks are ordering it?

Too much like conspiracy theory, so let's just wait a month or two for these things to get circulated, and watch for their results. Maybe something will find some combo that makes real gains...